/b/ - Random

Theres so much conflicting information about this topic. Ranging from outdated aryan savarnas native dalit theory (personally, dont see much substance in this theory as it was created by brits when academia believed in stuff such as eugenics, racial sciences). Then we have a camp of hindu nationalists who say stuff such as le caste was created by british(again it doesnt make sense given caste system was entrenched in rural india where brits didnt have much influence). I have also heard some people make distinction between varna and jati. Some hindu nationalists claim caste was meant to be fluid, based on your guna/qualities. This doesnt make sense either and just sounds like mental gymnastics caste is assigned at birth in real life.Yeah, i get many indian kings were of non kshatriya origin (mauryans, nandas, guptas, lalitaditya,shivaji) who became kshatriya after acquiring power but what about extreme cases such as an untouchable from caste of leather tanners becoming a priest? Also, some even assert that what we call castes are actually tribes or kinship groups seeing as individuals kept their caste even after switching professions. For eg some brahmins are involved in farming, many brahmins were even sepoys in british armies and were designated as martial race still they were considered separate from rajputs who too were seen as a martial race by brits. Some compare indian caste structure to feudalism in europe but castes such as Jats, bhattis, meena were seen as tribes by medieval traveller ibn battuta. If indian castes were social classes lower castes would be fine with their children marrying up but we dont see that instead each caste sticks to their own like a tribe.I am so confused about this stuff. So what really is caste system. Do we find any parallel of indian jati varna system in other societies.

>>9623(OP)

My personal theory is that varna system was like any other fuedal class system. Of course people in the upper and lower stratas are racially segregated, just like how coptic Egyptians and nigher Egyptians stayed racially segregated since the time of the earliest pharaohs. Or like how most of the lower tier jobs in 50s America was stereotyped to be done by nighers.

Eventually as time went on the rules got stricter and varna instead of being a indian equivalent of the fuedal class system due to centuries of low class mobility turned in to a more ethnic like identity.

Or maybe pajeets have a always been like this. Just look at all the jeecels dividing themselves into camps like "engi(by the way I am a nigger)wala" or "doctorwala" or "coomercewala" and making maymays against the other even though none of them have a license to be a practitioner of any of these jobs yet somehow turned them in to their basic identity. I think such a phenomenon is only unique in Lundia, no where else in the world people have such personal identification towards their career path and divide themselves among clans like this.

>>9623(OP)

>Do we find any parallel of indian jati varna system in other societies.

There's Samurai system from Japan.

>>9627

Where is the evidence for racial difference between castes? All i have seen is speculative theories by some people who believe in aryan invasion(not migration) theory. No serious academician believes in racial origin of caste. Also, indian castes dont seem like feudal classes to me. If they were, lower castes would be fine with their kids marrying up instead it is looked down upon. Also many castes who share similar professions such as agrarian jats, gujjars, yadavs yet maintain separate identities. Even within lower castes people are further divided into endogamous groups such as lohars(blacksmith), kumhars(potter), juhala(weaver). I dont think blacksmiths formed a separate caste different from a carpenter or cobbler in feudal europe. Yes they were separate from the nobility but the division only existed upto a certain level only. The proles were proles regardless of their trade.

>>9635

>All i have seen is speculative theories

Abbo cope.

>>9629

That explains kshatriya class in india but what about thousands of castes within OBC, SC, ST who are more or less the same in occupation(farming) yet have separate identities. Indian castes extend beyond simplified 4 occupations pyramidal hierarchy. Also how were lower castes and brahmins able to acquire kshatriya status? Kshatriyas seem like a role open to all which was acquired by different groups historically such as shudra mauryans, nairs, marathas. How come a brahmin like Pushyamitra shunga become an army general during mauryan era and brahmins like mangal pandey join as sepoys yet keep their caste if it is a social class.

>>9636

Call it whatever you want. I only believe evidence not some anecdotes or meme comparisons. Either show me a serious academic research or fuck off. The fact that people outside your village cant even guess your caste by appearance alone and have to rely on surname goes on to show how retarded your claim is? Racial grouping? lol my ass.

>>9635

>>9640

Ancient meme exams maxxing probably.

>>9643

But they can tell a braman from a bhangi with 90% accuracy.

>>9645

Lol. Yoo pulled out that figure out of your ass? Show me some studies not anecdotes. My experience does not tell me that. If that were true hiding caste wont be easy for LCs. People rely on socioeconomic cues, dietary habits, surname and family connections to discover someones bsckground.

>>9648

>hiding caste wont be easy for LCs

It isn't kek.

>>9652

Lol. It is pretty clear you dont have anything of substance to offer, only anecdotes and memes. Burkha dutt, saurabh shukla, j sai deepak are brahmins, retard. Do they look extraordinary to you. Lol.

>>9653

>seethes about giving anecdotes while providing only anecdotes himself

Once again, abbo cope kek.

>>9653

>>9682

Yeah rertard. Stupid questions get stupid replies and it is pretty clear you are a dumbass who continues to ramble here when i have already told clearly i would believe only evidence which you clearly dont have.

>>9683

Lol. Wtf is this? Another stupid shit someone pulled outta there ass. There has never been a large scale genetic studies on indian castes. All you fucktards rely on is hobby projects like harappaworld with laughably small sample size.

>>9688

What evidence exists that indian castes aren't genetically different. Please try to answer without providing examples of bhangi looking brahmins as proof.

>>9690

>There's never been a large scale study

Please define what you mean by "large scale stoody". Seems pretty large to me.

>>9690

Also just to add, just because there doesn't exists a stoody that is 99.9999% accurate like in case of yuropoors is not a proof against one that gives 95% accuracy. Unless such a study exists with higher accuracy that provides a counter argument, your argooment "hurr durr muh sample size" isn't an argooment at all.

Every country had once. But then they realized its too ancient and problematic so they culled it down. But lundia as is....

>>9704

It is present in all countries with different names and features.

>>9691

>What evidence exists that indian castes aren't genetically different.

You were the one who made the confident claim of castes being racially different in the first place. The burden of proof is on the claimant. As for my belief, i dont think so because i have never witnessed anyone being able to guess caste of others with great accuracy.

>>9748

>burden of proof is on the claimant

And I did. All you've done so far is deflection and denial and bringing up(ironic considering your accusations) anecdotes such as "i dont think so because i have never witnessed anyone being able to guess caste of others with great accuracy".

>>9749

Btw Rajnikanth is a Maratha, same caste as Shivaji, he's not dravidabhangi like many think he is.

>>9692

Why did you tale 50 percent as population proportion? Large scale means a study involving lakhs of samples. Indian castes have huge population and a few hundreds of samples wont cut it. Moreover, the study should be peer reviewed. Not some fucking random studies one finds on blogs.

>>9752

>lakhs of samples

Who says so? Even stoodies for jewropeans have few 10000s samples.

Also read >>9695

>peer reviews

These are published and soyience journals, not some random blogs. I think you're parroting argooments outdated for a decade ago. Genomic stoodies of indian castes isn't a hobby like it was back in mid 2010s.

>>9755

And all stoodies so far show clear racial delineation between upper, middle and lower castes.

>b-but I can't tell tell apart

Just because you can't tell apart an aborginal and an african mean they're the same race.

>>9749

What evidence? Anyone can post a study. The question is whether it has been peer reviewed. Also anecdotes arent completely irrelevant when coupled with evidence or lack thereof. Since there is no scientific evidence and my anecdotal experience doesnt provide evidence either, my belief has a basis.

>>9757

Point is that them looking similar enough to you and many others due to similar climatic adoptions towards a tropical climate means they're the same genetically.

>>9755

Europeans have low population and low genetic diversity so a small sample size cuts for them. Africa has highest genetic diversity in the world followed by india which decreases the farther you move from these region due to founders effect.

Also it is a random study unless peer reviewed literally anybody can post a study.

>>9761

Kek. I can tell the difference between a negro and abbo. You come up with some of the shittiest analogies.

>>9767

The largest greatest stoody on Africans has like 50000 samples iirc. And it's been found to be very accurate.

>literally anybody can post a study

Then, surely you can post a stoody that says otherwise, right?

>>9770

And I can tell between a brahmin and a bhangi. Your point?

>>9715

Except that its not. Chup kar castiest chamar

>but ther ij kast systamm in other cunt...

>>9771

Africa is understudied and also has lower population than india. Your point? Thankfully they were studied enough to undercover high genetic diversity which establishes out of africa migration. Similarly, when genetic studies on indians is concluded by Niraj Rai the out of india migration model will be established and AMT will be put to rest forever.

>Then, surely you can post a stoody that says otherwise, right.

Yes. But i dont have credentials and funding. Even if i had them my study wont mean shit unless peer reviewed.

>>9772

Kek. Good for you. You have some amazing superpowas. No ordinary human being can tell difference between a bhangi and a brahmin in an urban setting when controlled for equal socioeconomic status and childhood environment. Stop viewing everything from western lens. Just because their society had racial slavery doesnt mean you start superimposing that on indian caste system and society

Caste system was unironically a class system in ancient india there were many incidents where certain people demoted/promoted from their varnas

I feel like this decade is going to be worse than previous as opp. already planted those seeds about reservation and in private companies

There's no way upper middle class will openly give their asset and their children future to minorities instead of leaving india all along

>>9782

>Similarly, when genetic studies on indians is concluded by Niraj Rai the out of india migration model will be established and AMT will be put to rest forever

(by the way I am a nigger) you believing in literal crack theories made up by coping bhaktchamars who want to believe all lundian castes same bro and dismissed by most academia and you calling me a coper jfl.

>But i dont have credentials and funding

Surely, it won't matter, right. According to you, "anyone" can do such stoodies and if literal "blogposters" can find 600 individuals, so can some guy with academic funding by political groups who do want it to be true.

>>9784

Stop deflecting.

>>9788

Lol i dont believe in either AMT or OIT. The evidence for both is equally lacking as of now. AMT relies on linguistics a field which doesnt even follow the rigor of scientific method. The genetic argument for AMT is a very recent phenomenon. Linguistics has always been the backbone of AMT seeing as there is no archaeological or literary evidence for it.

>Surely, it won't matter, right. According to you, "anyone" can do such stoodies.

Jeez you are being so peculiar about semantics. Kek. Use some common sense. Just because i cant publish a study does not mean i should accept a study by someone else without peer review.

Gujjars were the first ancient Aryan tribe which were responsible for sexing other low skin colour people yet we see in hinduism God say that kalyug will see big castes likes gujjar becoming low.

Many idiots will disapprove but all scholars regard this is as true.

>>9868

Nice story, bro.